Topics: Perth Mint Senate Inquiry
E&OE
Gary Adshead
Dean Smith, Liberal Senator for WA, joins me on the line. G’day, Dean.
Dean Smith
Good morning to you, Gary.
Gary Adshead
Well, I’ll tell you what, first off, let’s just go back to what AUSTRAC have decided, this enforceable undertaking that Perth Mint have agreed, and Goldcorp have agreed, to go into. Is that a good outcome for the Mint?
Dean Smith
When the WA Government and Bill Johnson tries to suggest this is a win for West Australians, that is totally delusional, and I think a very powerful example of their attempt to gaslight West Australians. What the AUSTRAC decision says is quite alarming, and it’s there for people to see on the AUSTRAC website. It talks about a variety of issues where Gold Corporation has failed to meet a compliance requirement. Let me just read a quick quote for you, Gary, and for your listeners. From page two of the documents. It says that the AUSTRAC CEO is concerned that the Gold Corporation needs to take specific actions. Page three of the same document talks about the fact that Gold Corporation lists from point 8 through to point 12, a whole variety of compliance issues that it fears have not been met. And then at page four of that same document, and I’m quoting now, it says that Gold Corporation has failed to comply and may remain non-compliant with provisions of the anti-money laundering laws in our country. And let me just make one point – it’s not yet true that AUSTRAC will not fine Gold Corp and by extension West Australian taxpayers. That document says this enforceable undertaking does not affect AUSTRAC’s right to take any action, so future action in relation to any contraventions of the anti-money laundering laws, or the Counter-Terrorism Financing Act. This is gaslighting at its extreme by Bill Johnson and the WA Government.
Gary Adshead
Okay. Now, one of the other things that the Minister said was that, you know, when they came to government in 2017, they started to identify the fact that there were not the sort of processes and rigid processes that need to be in place in order to prevent money laundering, et cetera, through Perth Mint, given that they deal in gold bullion. He went on to say that they were starting to work on that. And then along came COVID. And, I think, to quote him, he said that the West Australian Premier at the time, Mark McGowan, was too busy saving lives, to take up what was required in relation to fixing the Perth Mint. And that’s why the job was handed to Bill Johnston. What do you make of that?
Dean Smith
That’s Bill Johnson’s account of things. And I’ve got a slightly different interpretation. I suspect that people in the WA Government started to appreciate just how serious some of these, non-compliance or failure to comply issues were with the anti-money laundering laws. And the then Premier Mark McGowan decides to offload it to Bill Johnson. That’s not an excuse. And that was on the public record when we had our inquiry in Perth on the 3rd of November. That is what Bill Johnson said to the Senate inquiry. That’s not an explanation that I’m prepared to accept, but we’ll have an opportunity to explore these matters again, because the Senate only in the last two weeks agreed to extend the Senate inquiry reporting date until the 30th of March. And that’s why I think AUSTRAC’s enforceable undertaking that was released early this week has come at the perfect time for the Senate inquiry, because I think it leaves many questions still unanswered. What Bill Johnson is attempting to do here, I’m hoping that West Australians will see through it, is create his own narrative. A narrative that’s in contrast to what has been brought forward as evidence in the Senate inquiry thus far.
Gary Adshead
But he’s right when he says there’s no actual evidence of money laundering taking place.
Dean Smith
This is an example of Bill creating his own narrative. What we are examining here is the failure of the Gold Corporation to meet its’s very clear legislative requirements in regard to anti-money laundering laws. And if they haven’t been doing that, then it does open the door for clients to act criminally. So, what Bill is trying to say is actually not what we’re talking about here. What we are talking about here is that the Gold Corporation has not been compliant with its very clearly stated obligations under Federal law to ensure that it doesn’t leave itself and its client’s open to any anti-money laundering. This enforceable undertaking is there for people to see, eight pages of it. I think it is damning and the decision of AUSTRAC to require an independent auditor to oversee Gold Corp’s implementation of the remediation program that it has in place, I think speaks volumes. It suggests that AUSTRAC isn’t completely comfortable with the work that the Gold Corp is doing now. That is my opinion at the moment, but I can test that opinion when AUSTRAC comes before the inquiry in the next few weeks.
Gary Adshead
Can I just ask you that specific claim that Bill Johnson made about you where he says that you’re touting sort of allegations around two banks that just don’t stack up? What do you say?
Dean Smith
Bill is absolutely wrong. There were numerous media articles in 2020 that identified HSBC and JP Morgan as having ceased purchasing gold from the Perth Mint. These were articles written by very reputable journalists, including a Walkley Award winner. Nonetheless, it was a matter I put directly to Mr Walsh. When he was at the Senate inquiry on the 3rd of November, I said to the Chairman, in 2020 the Australian Financial Report Financial Review reported that HSBC and JP Morgan stopped buying gold from the Perth Mint. Has the Perth Mint reached out to either of these two institutions to rebuild its reputation and restore faith in the quality of the gold? And Mr Walsh said to me, yes, of course. So, Bill is very wrong on that.
Gary Adshead
Okay. So just, just give us a quick timeline when you, you hope to wrap up your inquiry.
Dean Smith
The Senate has agreed to extend the reporting date to the 30th of March next year. That’ll give us an opportunity to come back to Perth perhaps later this year. To be fair to the Perth Mint and to Mr Walsh, they have agreed to come back before the committee. There are some matters that we wanted to explore with them in Canberra and they’ve agreed to do that. But there are other people on our list that we’d like to talk to. And I think it might be necessary to talk to the previous CEO.
Gary Adshead
Yeah. And it would be interesting to speak to the AUSTRAC CEO as well at the moment, to try and sort of read between the lines of what those eight pages that you talk about consisted of.
Dean Smith
On this point, Gary, AUSTRAC has been before the committee three times, so they’ve been very cooperative. So, the evidence makes it very clear. This is far from a clean bill of health for Gold Corporation.
Gary Adshead
Will they be called again, given what you now have in front of you? Because you know, as an example, I know on page three it talks about a Gold Corporation failing to report 3,322 international financial transactions.
Dean Smith
I will ask them to reappear. I mean, if people are interested, page three of the report, issued by AUSTRAC earlier this week, makes it very clear there is a lot happening here that needs to be improved upon. I’m as committed to this as I was at the beginning of the process because this is an important WA institution. It deserves to have an absolutely clean bill of health. And people should view this inquiry and shining a light on some of these issues as a way of getting better outcomes.
Gary Adshead
And just finally, you don’t think it’s a storm in an F-ing Teacup as our former Premier once said in Parliament?
Dean Smith
Absolutely not. Very far from that. Very far from that.
Gary Adshead
Dean Smith, thanks very much for your time.
Dean Smith
Thank you, Gary.
ENDS