Senator Dean Smith
Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
Liberal Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT – ABC DRIVE WITH GARY ADSHEAD
Topics: Labor smear campaign, Chinese warships, Northwest Shelf , Senator Payman Iran comments
E&OE
GARY ADSHEAD:
And if I push a button now, I’m pretty hopeful that I will have at the other end of the line in Canberra, the one, the only, Liberal senator Dean Smith. How are you, Dean?
DEAN SMITH:
G’day, Gary and Madeleine. I’m, very well. Feeling a bit of FOMO here.
MADELEINE KING:
Me too, missing out on estimates.
DEAN SMITH:
I know, lots to talk about. Lots to share, Madeleine.
GARY ADSHEAD:
There is. Hey, let me get you both warmed up, though. Anthony Green’s retiring, Madeleine.
MADELEINE KING:
That’s really sad. And haven’t we all been, for many years, watching and listening to Anthony Green on election coverages or reading his blogs more recently? A really insightful fellow. I heard the interview. I was driving back down from York a little while back, and, you know, what a talent that we’ll miss, to be honest. And how he managed to turn those notes in peoples’ heads, I think he put it, into a function on a computer that that more people could look at and we could see on our television screens.
GARY ADSHEAD:
And Dean, I mean, I don’t know about from your point of view as a politician, but us as journos, he makes our job a lot easier.
DEAN SMITH:
Well, he makes the politician’s job a bit easier as well, Gary, because he’d always call it relatively early and very accurately. So, we would know whether we had cause for celebration or cause for commiseration. But I’ve met Anthony in person twice, actually, once here in Parliament, but also out and about. And a really informative guy, great passion for our democratic system, and he’ll be greatly missed. But we’re lucky to have him for the WA election, and we’re lucky to have him for the for the next Federal one.
GARY ADSHEAD:
And, I mean, let’s hope, well, your side of politics is hoping he doesn’t call this one as early as he did the last one. He was going for a record last time in 2021. Alright. Now listen. In the last twenty-four hours, we’ve seen these stories and reports in and around Peter Dutton and, his property portfolio and whether or not he had some sort of insider knowledge around share purchases, going way back. What’s this all about, Madeleine King? This attack on him in terms of his aspiration and ability to get on and make a living and, obviously, a good life for his family and wealth. What do you say to it?
MADELEINE KING:
Oh, I respect everyone’s right to do precisely that. I mean, I’ve worked before, going into Parliament in different sectors as a lawyer, in the university, doing a number of things. And I think what we’ve seen is journalists asking questions about previous transactions, and those questions will continue to be asked because, you know, you’ve been a journalist, and sometimes it’s a dog with a bone here. They’re going to follow it until they’re satisfied with an answer. And I’ll leave that with Peter Dutton to deal with.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Yeah. Well, Dean Smith, I mean, obviously, the timing’s interesting, isn’t it?
DEAN SMITH:
Gary, this is a disgraceful and desperate attempt by Labor to smear Peter Dutton on the eve of the calling of the election. And this particular attack has fallen very flat. Labor Senators in the Senate Economics Committee this morning tried to raise the issue, tried to prosecute an argument, and it’s absolutely fallen flat. I think that if the Prime Minister has any accusations to level at Peter Dutton, he should be up front. He should do it out in the open, and not to resort to these sorts of unnecessary smear tactics. But let’s be clear. Peter Dutton came out this morning and denied that there was any wrongdoing whatsoever. And people will remember that Peter has been a police officer that acted with great integrity. He’s been a Parliamentarian who’s acted with great integrity. A very shameful first attempt, I suspect, by Labor to smear Peter Dutton and it has fallen flat.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Is there anything wrong with a politician, let alone anyone, having 26 houses or whatever the case may be over the years, given that aspiration of owning a home for a lot of people has well and truly disappeared?
MADELEINE KING:
I mean, what’s been said is in the newspapers. It’s, you know, been across two newspapers is my understanding. I have no objection that some people have had more time than others to do this, or more natural advantages, or have had different opportunities in life, and that is, in every instance, up to them. So, I’m not going to criticise…
DEAN SMITH:
There’s absolutely no wrongdoing here.
MADELEINE KING:
You know I’m not saying that.
DEAN SMITH:
Good, so you agree it was a Labor smear campaign?
MADELEINE KING:
It’s not a smear campaign. I just read what was in the papers. And as I said at the start, this is for journalists. If they want to ask questions to the Leader of the Opposition, they’ll get their answers. If they’re not satisfied with the answers, they’ll keep on asking questions. That’s what happens to each of us all the time.
DEAN SMITH:
We suspect the origin of this was probably a Labor Party dirt unit.
MADELEINE KING:
Well, I mean, I guess you can suspect all you want, and I’m going to leave it at that. And Peter Dutton will answer those questions. And as you know, Dean, we all get these questions all the time.
DEAN SMITH:
A Categorical denial by Peter Dutton today. And, Madeleine, can we get a commitment from you and Labor that we won’t see smear tactics against Peter Dutton as we sort of kick on to the election?
MADELEINE KING:
If the Liberal Party and the National Party commit to not doing smear campaigns, you know, we can think about it, but, I mean, no one can.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Senator Dean Smith, don’t forget that when Peter Dutton was here in Perth, I think he was at some commercial radio station, they handed him a piece of paper, and they said, you know, draw us a picture of what you think of Anthony Albanese. And what he did was he drew a picture of him with his mansion on the hill. You know, he was making a point that this is a Prime Minister with a with a big house overlooking the water.
DEAN SMITH:
To be fair, though, Gary, I don’t think Peter Dutton has actually ever come out and criticised Anthony Albanese for that retirement home purchase.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Picture tells a thousand words.
MADELEINE KING:
You know, it’s a new family they’re making together, and they’re entitled to that.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Okay. Let’s move on. Let’s go to Chinese warships, shall we? This has been, you know, I’ve been sort of covering it fairly extensively in the last couple of days because I’ve been listening to the sort of the language of the Government, which is, let’s hold our horses and not get too carried away here. And the PM was stressing on Q and A to say, look, these ships, while we might not like it and so on, they are operating outside of our economic exclusion zone. Well, it turns out that they weren’t yesterday. They were actually inside those waters of Hobart. So, are we going hard enough at China in relation to this, Madeleine?
MADELEINE KING:
Well, I do think we need to be calm, when these things happen. I think that the response is measured. Obviously, no one likes this at all. It’s certainly not my preferred thing to wake up to see Chinese naval exercises between the waters between us and New Zealand. But we do have to be calm about what we say about this because inflaming situations, especially on the sea, is a matter of grave danger. But having said all that, it is true, and I totally support the Deputy Prime Minister when he says it would have been better practice and certainly better for our relationship if the Chinese Government had forewarned Australia of these activities, and I think everyone probably agrees with that. But, hopefully, they leave soon.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Dean Smith, what would, what would you do? You’re in power. What would you do in this situation? It’s delicate.
DEAN SMITH:
Well, I’m very confident that Peter Dutton, and Andrew Hastie, if he was the Defence Minister, would be absolutely on top of issue. Before we worry about China, let’s worry about whether Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Richard Marles are doing the job that they need to be doing, and their first priority should be the national security of this country. Richard Marles went out on the weekend and said that there would be no disruption to flights between Australia and New Zealand. And then it was revealed that there were, in fact, Air Services Australia revealed, that there were disruptions to commercial flights between Australia and New Zealand. And then we discovered that it wasn’t the Australian Defence Force that discovered that there was live firing from these Chinese Naval vessels. It was a Virgin Australia commercial aircraft pilot telling Air Services Australia, who told the Defence Department.
MADELEINE KING:
Dean, you know the timing is all contested…
GARY ADSHEAD:
So, I think you’re saying the question here…
DEAN SMITH:
The question here, I think, Gary – is the Prime Minister on top of his primary responsibility? And that is to keep the country safe.
MADELEINE KING
Dean is in his estimates fog where everyone thinks they’re a super sleuth and we know what it’s like in estimates, where they’re all sleuthing around, trying to ask…
DEAN SMITH:
You’re not a Senator…
MADELEINE KING:
But I watch Senators. Don’t you worry, Dean. I know what’s going on.
GARY ADSHEAD:
I hope you watch the good ones.
MADELEINE KING:
Always Dean, of course. But we do need to remember that the last time a Government of Australia engaged in some pretty heavy handed rhetoric it cost the economy $60,000,000,000. So, we don’t want to go down that path. But the Prime Minister, the Defence Minister, all Ministers, I mean, all Parliamentarians, I would say, have the national interest at the forefront of their mind. But it is also important not to damage the national interest just by being angry and making outlandish statements about…
DEAN SMITH:
We’re not even talking about the national interest matter here. We’re talking about whether or not the Minister for Defence, the Prime Minister himself, has been on top of this issue since they first knew about it, and the evidence is conflicting. It’s clear that they are not on top of the issue or have not been on top of the issue.
MADELEINE KING:
I don’t think that’s the matter at all.
DEAN SMITH:
The matter is still not clear after days of Senate estimates inquiry…
MADELEINE KING:
The thing in estimates is one thing. What happens in the Defence Minister’s office and the briefings he gets is, of course, as you would know, and everyone would appreciate, is a very different thing.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Now I’ll finish that discussion by just saying this. I’ve got Dean Smith, the Liberal Senator, and I’ve got Federal Resources Minister Madeleine King here in the studio. Madeleine, they might well be coming. Since they do appear to be going south, they might well be coming. They’ll be sitting off Rockingham soon, so it might get more interesting.
MADELEINE KING:
Well, lucky the USS Minnesota is there.
GARY ADSHEAD:
But that they do appear to be tracking this way, so we’ll wait and see how that develops. The language around the uncertainty of a hung parliament and a minority Government with the Teals and the Greens, particularly the language that I’ve seen from the big gas companies, Woodside and, of course, Beach Energy. They’ve been talking about it as well in the last twenty four hours, has really been ramped up to try and tell people, please vote for one of the major parties, but none of the minors. Is it a scare campaign, Madeleine? That you might be in Government with the Teals and the Greens and therefore Northwest Shelf development won’t go ahead, etc?
MADELEINE KING:
Well, Gary, we plan on being a majority Government as we are right now. I agree with some of the sentiment that has been in the press recently in Western Australia that a vote for the Greens political party is not a useful vote. It’s a vote for a party of protests, with extreme ideologies. Where doing nothing, to promote those extreme ideologies, outweighs actual environmental benefit. So, I would agree with the sentiment. Don’t vote for Greens. Vote for Labor.
GARY ADSHEAD:
What do you say Dean?
DEAN SMITH:
It was important there what Madeleine didn’t mention. She didn’t mention the Teals.
MADELEINE KING:
And, well, that’s because they’re your seats. The women you didn’t preselect.
DEAN SMITH:
What we’ve got here is more than a scare campaign. So, a vote for the Greens or the Teal in Kate Chaney is a vote for uncertainty. More particularly, it’s a vote that will undermine existing and future projects in Western Australia, which are fundamental to generating important wealth, not only for our state, but also for the whole economy. And we have here, and which we touched on last time, is a decision that has put in doubt the future development of the Northwest Shelf, which is a very significant…
MADELEINE KING:
The decision has not been made…
DEAN SMITH:
Correct. It’s been delayed, Madeleine. It’s now delayed until post-election. So, it is now a bargaining chip.
MADELEINE KING:
Six years in the state system, and…
DEAN SMITH:
And now it’s been delayed, and a decision will not be made during the caretaker period.
MADELEINE KING:
These are the laws that John Howard enacted as the Minister before, but this is now…
DEAN SMITH:
We’re clearly saying the project is now a bargaining chip, and it is a very, very dangerous outcome for Western Australia and the people employed by this project.
MADELEINE KING:
Can I just explain to you? I spent two years, my first two years as Resources Minister, cleaning up the mess from the former Resources Minister and other Ministers of the Coalition Government because they went shooting off at the mouth about decisions they needed to make without being reasonable, without looking at departmental advice, and making decisions out of the proper way of making decisions based on evidence. This Government has had to expend a lot of effort, and, unfortunately, a lot of money on lawyers fixing up the mess of the former Government because people just shot off their Ministers, made promises, and said things they should never say because it’s a responsibility as a Minister to make decisions properly.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Can I, can I just jump in here and ask you this, Madeleine? If there are concerns about, you know, what could happen under a hung parliament and minority Government and so on, and whether or not the Teals and the Greens might ask your minority Government to stop the expansion of Northwest Shelf. Why is it that Labor would preference Kate Chaney in Curtin above Tom White who would be right behind Northwest Shelf.
MADELEINE KING:
Can I make a point about the Northwest Shelf and about every other project? It, it doesn’t…
GARY ADSHEAD:
But why would you not preference Tom White if you think that you need certainty on things like that?
MADELEINE KING:
The decision around projects like that and others are set in a legal framework that has administrative boundaries that Ministers have to adhere to. So, it’s not a bargaining chip at all. Like, that’s just a made up thing because people want to create uncertainty for their own political motives. There is an administrative process that is what we work to, and these are the things that are also contested in the courts, which we might not like that all the time, but we sure respect it because that’s our system. So, I think this is a furphy and just something that people want to do for their own political gain to confuse.
DEAN SMITH:
No, it’s not a furphy. Because the Woodside Chief Executive herself has put her name to these sorts of comments.
MADELEINE KING:
Woodside is not the Government. The Government is the Government, and we will make decisions in the administrative framework that we’ve inherited in the Westminster System and through the laws that we all enact and support or, obviously, they contest in the Parliament. And that’s what we do, and that’s what good Government is. So, we will go through a process.
DEAN SMITH:
So Western Australians can be confident that if a Labor Government is re-elected, the Northwest Shelf extension will take place. Is that what you’re saying?
MADELEINE KING:
What I am saying is that people can be confident the Northwest Shelf extension will go through the proper process. It is the system, Dean, that you worked in when you were in Government, that Liberal Ministers work in, except that they messed it up because they made things up and made stupid statements.
DEAN SMITH:
Madeleine, Kate Chaney has said it would be terrible news.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Well, hang on. Here’s what the Chaney said not long ago.
(RECORDING) KATE CHANEY:
I think that it would be fine for the project to go ahead if a few conditions are met. And these projects have huge long-term consequences. So, if we’re fully costing climate and recognising the real costs, so, you know, social and environmental costs of the emissions from this massive project. And if we’re addressing the other issues like environmental and Aboriginal heritage issues, and if the numbers still stack up when they’re fully costing the climate impact, then it should go ahead.
GARY ADSHEAD:
So, it should go ahead, but, obviously, there might be a few more obstacles to jump over in relation to that particular project from Kate Chaney’s point of view. If she was in a position of bargaining with your Government.
MADELEINE KING:
No one will be in a position of bargaining because we’ve got this framework that Ministerial decisions go through. It’s not a bargaining chip. I mean, I know the media like to make it, and Dean’s liking to make it because he’s on the radio, but it’s just not how it works.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Okay. Now I’m going to change the subject, Dean Smith and Madeleine King. Fatima Payman, Senator Fatima Payman, what do you make of her view that we might not sort of see the whole picture in Iran as far as women are concerned and that she’s more than happy to listen to both sides because there could be a bit of, you know, misreporting going on by the media in relation to the regime in Iran? I mean, did you make of that, Madeleine?
MADELEINE KING
Well, I mean, it’s a lot to take in, and I think it is, you know, ironic in the extreme and also sad that someone who’s got to a position by being associated with the progressive side of politics in this country, is now advocating for the most totalitarian administration in the world. So, I don’t support those comments. I’m flabbergasted and disgusted by them.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Dean, just quickly, what do you think?
DEAN SMITH:
Madeleine and I are on a unity ticket here. Fatima Payman is very wrong on this matter. Iran and the Iranian regime is not safe for women. It’s not safe for members of the LGBTI community. It’s not safe for ethnic minorities. And it’s very disappointing that Fatima Payman doesn’t use her privileged position to fight harder for human rights issues for all of those affected groups.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Now this is really risky of me to do this. Producers have been thinking, what is he doing? I’m going to try and squeeze in a call. Hi, Victoria. Hi. What would you like to say?
(CALLER):
Hi there. I’m 22. I’m pretty concerned about my future, and I’m really concerned about the rhetoric around the Northwest Shelf extension. In particular, you know, Australia is committed to net zero by 2050. We’ve signed the Paris agreement to be 1.5 aligned. By approving the Northwest Shelf extension, as part of Woodsides hub, would lock in 6,000,000,000 tons of emissions and lock in burning fossil fuels until 2070.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Okay. I’m going to cut it short there, though, Victoria. Well, yes. I mean, there is that consideration when you’re saying that’s being weighed up by the Federal Government right now. Is that what you’re saying, Madeleine? That gets weighed up as part of it.
MADELEINE KING:
Well, thanks, Victoria, for your call. All of these concerns and the concerns that are wrapped up in the requirements of the framework that I spoke about, the EPBC act, of course, they are being looked at because that’s what the law says a Minister should look at.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Take care. Alright. And that was a nice and short answer. Dean Smith, I really appreciate it. Sorry. We’ve run out of time. Thanks very much for joining us from Canberra.
DEAN SMITH:
Good to be with you both.
MADELEINE KING:
See you next week.
ENDS