Senator Dean Smith
Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury
Liberal Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT – ABC DRIVE WITH GARY ADSHEAD
Topics: WA state election; WAEC handing of election, US Tariffs
E&OE
GARY ADSHEAD:
And joining me right now, Liberal Senator Dean Smith who joins us in the studio. Hello Dean.
DEAN SMITH:
G’day Gary.
GARY ADSHEAD:
And on the line Madeleine King, the Federal Resources Minister. I’m not sure where she is, but she’s definitely on a telephone line, I hope. How are you?
MADELEINE KING:
Hi Gary, can you hear me?
GARY ADSHEAD:
Oh, I’ve got you loud and clear.
MADELEINE KING:
Fabulous.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Dean’s here, he says G’day.
MADELEINE KING:
Hi Dean. How are you going?
DEAN SMITH:
Congratulations, Madeleine, and to the red team.
MADELEINE KING:
Thank you very much. As always. You’re always gracious, I must say.
DEAN SMITH:
You would’ve heard on the radio that I did draw attention to the 25% swing away from Labor in the state seat of Rockingham in the heart of your electorate though.
MADELEINE KING:
Oh, but it didn’t all go to the one place, so we’ll wait…
GARY ADSHEAD:
That is the full picture, Madeleine. Alright, just first. I know Madeleine, on Saturday, we certainly had this sort of playing out as we were trying to look at election results and who was winning and who was losing and so on. We had this sort of peppered through our coverage on the ABC, these calls and these anecdotes of problems with polling booths. It’s snowballing. What has gone on here and how worried should we be?
MADELEINE KING:
Well, I mean I’m sure Dean’s probably the same. I’ve never heard of anything like this, in the elections when I wasn’t a candidate, you know, growing up voting and enjoying voting and indeed loving voting. So, this is a new reality. I’ve never heard anything like this It’s not good. I think the Premier’s acknowledged that. I heard Sally on the phone before. I agree with her. This has been a shemozzle and something we’ll need to change. And, you know, I heard other calls earlier say that when you have an election that’s not got the confidence of people, its open to challenges and seats open to challenges. I heard the story about an elderly man that couldn’t vote. I mean everyone, well, not saying everyone loves voting, but for the most part people want to vote. And that’s why respecting that trust in our democracy is so important that Electoral Commissions around the country get it right. I’m really confident in the Australian Electoral Commission, the independent federal body, and I don’t know how this could work, but maybe there’s a space for WA to outsource it to the AEC. But, you know, I don’t want to spark controversy there.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Well, Dean Smith. I mean, in terms of the seriousness of it, we’re talking about an inquiry of some sort, but is it deeper than that? I mean, what are you hearing on the ground from people who are saying “for goodness’ sake”?
DEAN SMITH:
It’s definitely deeper than that, Gary. I started to hear news probably late afternoon on Saturday about booths running out of ballot papers. Pretty significant and serious stuff. I think the time for asking and probing questions is now, and if Robert Kennedy, the State Electoral Commissioner won’t come on your show, well let’s ask the WA Auditor General. What were they doing over the last few years? Did they conduct an inquiry into the suitability of outsourcing certain Electoral Commission functions? What action will the Auditor General take in Western Australia in response to this? In the Federal Parliament, we have a very robust parliamentary inquiry mechanism. So, after every election, win, lose or draw, after every election, there’s a joint parliamentary committee that conducts an examination into the conduct of that. I agree with Madeleine that the Australian Electoral Commission is highly professional, but sometimes problems do happen. And it was only a few elections ago when we lost Senate ballot papers and we had to have the Senate rerun here in Western Australia. So, integrity of the ballot is very important. I think there are some questions of the WA Minister who was responsible for electoral affairs.
GARY ADSHEAD:
He’s gone.
DEAN SMITH:
Well, then, he should be free! We need John Quigley on the program. He should be freer to talk about what he did and what he didn’t do. And was the Cabinet advised and did the Cabinet sign off on these procurement arrangements? What due diligence did the Minister, and the Government, put the process through? You know, Shane Love has been out there, quite rightly talking about further inquiry. But I think people deserve some answers now because there are eight electoral contests still not called. Albany, Dawesville, Pilbara, just to name a few, Fremantle, which you’ve talked about. This is a live issue. So, I don’t think it’s appropriate for Robert Kennedy to not yet have come and spoken to the West Australian public via programs like your own or Nadia’s. The Government should be very clear about what review mechanisms will be put in place. I think the Auditor General is a good place for the ABC to start.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Okay, alright. No, good point. Just from both of you, you probably know whether this, how this might work, but let, let’s say there is a seat that comes down to the wire and then those polling booths in that, in that electorate had all these problems. Who makes the decision from a Liberal point of view or a Labor point of view, right? If they want to recount or go to the Supreme Court. Who does it?
MADELEINE KING:
Well. Well, I mean the, the parties make, make those decisions. Our State Secretary would, I imagine it’s the same mechanism in the Liberal Party. But a recount is one thing and they’re quite standard. That’s not controversial when it’s just a close result by the votes that come out of the ballot box. But in this case where there’s reports of people not being able to vote and other irregularities, then the decision has to be made once the vote is declared whether to take this to the court of Disputed Returns, which is our Supreme Court in this case. And they will have a really high threshold whether to interfere, well not interfere, but have a rerun. But, that is one of the things they could do. And you know, we do have to wait for the ballots that have been cast to all be counted. And I agree with Dean to some extent that Robert Kennedy should, you know, come on the show or any show and explain what happened.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Oh, the press conference. I mean he did one on the weekend, it lasted six minutes and then after that we, we started finding out more and more.
MADELEINE KING:
With respect, I really think, I really want them to count those votes. Right. ’cause it’s going very slowly. And the sooner the votes are counted, the sooner each party, the independents, whoever’s involved in this election, can start to move on and consider whether they do want to go to that court of Disputed Returns.
DEAN SMITH:
Madeleine, you and I have to live with crisis management very often in our careers. And I’m not a crisis management specialist, but I do think that the West Australian public is deserving of some reassurance from the Electoral Commissioner himself about the process that is currently underway. What he’s thinking or what the options are in reality. And I think your technical explanation is actually correct, but I think that West Australians have got a right to responses to their questions from the Electoral Commissioner. Now I’m a Federal parliamentarian, Gary, so I sort of tread warily, but you know, Shane Love has been out there, quite rightly, very early. There are some important questions that have to be answered in regards to the due diligence that, that the WA Government went through went through. To what extent was the Auditor General involved in that? Because it’s been proven to be a high-risk policy.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Okay. Now the both of you, I’m going to spice it up a bit now because of course we’ve seen that the Trump administration has slapped Australia with 25% tariffs on steel and aluminium products that go into the US. This is why, according to Peter Dutton, he’s taken aim at our Prime minister.
(RECORDING) PETER DUTTON:
I want to make sure that we’re a government that can deal with our, deal with our trading partners effectively and clearly the Prime Minister hasn’t been able to do this. It’s obvious that Anthony Albanese and Kevin Rudd have had a shocker. The Prime Minister can’t secure a phone call, let alone a meeting with the President of the United States. And how on earth can an outcome be negotiated if the president won’t even take the Prime Minister’s call? So, it’s not just Australians who see the Prime Minister as weak and incompetent, it’s our trading partners as well. And the sad reality is, because of the Prime Minister’s inability to deal with this issue, Australian jobs are at risk and Australian industry is at risk. The Prime Minister needed to get this right and he didn’t.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright, Dean Smith, first up, do you agree with everything that the leader of the Liberal Party just said then?
DEAN SMITH:
Yes, I do. And I’d add to what Peter Dutton has just said, we started with this new Trump administration from a position of strength, with a free trade agreement that has worked very well for our country. A trade surplus between ourselves and the United States and a special relationship through the AUKUS arrangements and the Quad. Anthony Albanese has been the only Quad leader not to have met personally with Donald Trump. That is a significant failing. And Peter Dutton argues that this special relationship hasn’t obviously been handled well. We have talked in the past about the suitability of Kevin Rudd as the Ambassador to the United States. This has a significant failing on the part of Anthony Albanese and the whole Labor team. And we had, just this afternoon, the trade Minister Senator Farrell from South Australia saying, ‘oh this was always going to be the case’ – that’s not a suitable excuse.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Madeleine, why, why didn’t the Prime Minister get to meet with Donald Trump? Did he try?
MADELEINE KING:
Well, first can I say, Gary, I’m really disappointed Dean’s not getting the opportunity to talk about the electoral result on Saturday. But maybe it’s time for reflection.
GARY ADSHEAD:
I know we’ve got 10 minutes to go. He’s already congratulated you.
DEAN SMITH:
We’ve got 10 minutes to go, Madeleine.
MADELEINE KING:
I would say, though, Peter Dutton’s inconsistency on this is staggering. One minute he’s on Team Australia for trade and the next minute he’s not and just wants to take pot shots everywhere. I mean of course the decision by the Trump administration is entirely unjustified. You know, at any given moment, as soon as the Prime Minister gets on a plane, we have Liberal Members and Senators having a go at him for travelling and now they want him to get on the plane. I mean, it’s staggering in their inconsistency and the hypocrisy.
DEAN SMITH:
Now, Madeleine, we’re totally consistent. We want Australia’s national interest protected and we want it promoted, and this is another failing on Labor’s behalf.
GARY ADSHEAD:
So, you don’t think, Madeleine, you don’t think that Peter Dutton could have prevented these tariffs if he was PM?
MADELEINE KING:
No, I, I absolutely don’t. I don’t think he’s a serious person on trade for Australia one single bit and, you know, if I could be allowed to continue without interruption. We’ve consistently made the case for free and fair trade, including access to the US market and for Australian steel and aluminium and beef. I mean we know and we agreed on this the other week, that tariffs only end up affecting US consumers and they’re going to find out about that really very soon. So here we have, though the Coalition, sort of cheering against Australia’s interest in a trade war for political point scoring. I think that’s despicable, but you know, that’s what they want to do because they’re just not serious about government.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright. Okay. Well, I was going to segue, Dean, because we don’t have a lot of time. I was going to ask you, Dean Smith, whether the Liberal Party in WA has got a lot of work to get its it’s shop in order, given what we just saw on the weekend and whether they need another leader to replace Libby Mettam right now.
DEAN SMITH:
The first part of that question was probably the easiest question I’ve had since Saturday. It’s absolutely crystal clear. In all seriousness, the Liberal Party has a lot of work to do. This is an election defeat that follows 2017, 2021 and the 2022 Federal Election defeat. So, it is time for, I think, some collective responsibility. It’s absolutely time for us to step up and make sure that the Federal Election that is due in just less than eight weeks now is an opportunity for WA Liberals to put their best foot forward. To deliver some good outcomes, for not just Peter Dutton and the whole Coalition team, but for West Australians. We think that there are some very strong arguments why people should be supporting the Liberal Party. Cost of living is a powerful example of that, Nature Positive is not off the table. The Government wants to bring forward industrial relations laws that will further disrupt the strength of our mining and resources industry. So, a disappointing result. We are united in that view. We do have some very serious work to do. Whether or not it’s Libby Mettam, or whether or not it’s Basil Zempilas, that is really a discussion that is up to the team that’s there now, but also some of the new Members that might come in. You had Adam Hort. I’d love to see Adam Hort part of the parliamentary Party and wishing him all success. I’d love to see Amanda Kailis. Pilbara was not on anyone’s radar and Amanda Kailis has made that so marginal. So, there are some important opportunities for us in the rebuild. There’s no doubt about that.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Madeleine, what happened on the weekend, with Labor winning a third successive landslide victory here in WA. Does it help Anthony Albanese’s status over here?
MADELEINE KING:
Well, I mean they are different electorates. Yeah, as is, you know, very obvious. But, you know, Dean just mentioned cost of living. I’ll remind listeners that the current WA Liberals in the Federal Parliament voted against every single cost of living measure that the government has put forward: tax cuts, fee-free TAFE, cutting student debt, energy bill relief, caps on gas prices on the East Coast. You name it, they oppose it. So, you wouldn’t want to believe a word they say around cost of living relief. This election or the election last week was down to the incredible leadership of Roger Cook and his team. And, for the Liberals, when you think about it, this is a worse result than 2021. You can’t even blame Covid or a pandemic situation on this because this is the unvarnished opinion levelled by the people of Western Australia on the Western Australian Liberals that delivered them five seats on Saturday night. Now I know there might be more in coming days, but there won’t be many more.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Less than 11, could be 12. I reckon less than 10. Dean Smith?
DEAN SMITH:
Well, more than two, less than 13, which was in 2017.
GARY ADSHEAD:
And, and, and the problem is Madeleine, as I’m sure Dean would agree, put words in his mouth, is that even though there was about an 18% swing away from Labor in this instance, it just wasn’t going to the Liberals. It was a small amount everywhere. It was going everywhere.
DEAN SMITH:
But if I could use the ABC to talk to Liberal voters and to members of the Liberal Party for two seconds, Gary,
GARY ADSHEAD:
Go ahead.
DEAN SMITH:
There is cause for optimism. In 2013, when Labor suffered a terrible result here in Western Australia, indeed, one Labor member who lost his seat, John Hyde, characterised Mark McGowan as a talk show host. So bad was their campaign and their experience. I just say this, in politics there’s always another opportunity to prove yourself. There’s always another opportunity to step up. It’s important for us to focus on what is ahead of us, not what had been behind us. The opportunity for us to use what are very powerful political opportunities to demonstrate that we are a credible alternative to Federal Labor. That Peter Dutton will be a good Prime Minister for this country, that is immediately ahead of us. So, I just encourage people to stay attentive to the opportunity that exists. There’ll be an opportunity to reflect on what has not worked well, but in politics, there’s always another chance to prove yourself.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Alright, that was a party political broadcast on behalf of Dean Smith, Liberal Senator for the state of WA. Madeleine can have; well you can have a minute now. This is great fun. What would you say to the voters of Western Australia through the ABC?
MADELEINE KING:
I would say for the WA Libs, Dean talks about going forward, but they’ve spent eight years doing nothing and going backwards. So, the future is not clear. The bright light is not clear at all for the WA Libs.
DEAN SMITH:
Labor’s challenge now is one of arrogance, one of…
MADELEINE KING:
There goes my minute…
GARY ADSHEAD:
Dean, you’re in trouble.
DEAN SMITH:
Madeleine, I’m…
GARY ADSHEAD:
I’ll let you back in, Madeleine.
MADELEINE KING:
We have a plan for a future made in Australia. As you know, we have delivered tax cuts to every single Australian: that’s a real cost of living measure, the same thing the Liberals voted against. And there are many more, whether it be benefits through Medicare, fee-free TAFE, cuts to student debt. You know, we are focused on the people of this country. We’re not focused on fake culture wars or, or silly little arguments on the sidelines, which is what they do all the time. We are focused on a better life for all Australians.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Madeleine King, thank you very much for joining us.
MADELEINE KING:
Pleasure.
GARY ADSHEAD:
Dean Smith. Thanks very much for joining us and both of you, just so you know, tomorrow the Prime Minister of Australia will be standing where Dean is right now. So, I’ll be able to have a chat about all of those issues with him as well.
DEAN SMITH:
Thanks Gary.
ENDS